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lipsquid Online

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Post: #31
RE: Protest

Are you saying LL should start digging beneath his stove?
19th November 2018 12:09 PM
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ToonArmy1892 Offline

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Post: #32
RE: Protest

Apparently there have been alot of people having a dig at the magpie group for this on twitter.

You will now have aload of dafties who might have boycotted the wolves game, attending in some sort of misguided protest against the magpie group, forgetting who the actual battle is against.
(This post was last modified: 19th November 2018 12:29 PM by ToonArmy1892.)
19th November 2018 12:16 PM
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McCreery Offline

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Post: #33
RE: Protest

(19th November 2018 10:52 AM)Tight_Ass_Bramble Wrote:  I think you've got it the wrong way round, LL.

Before I say why, I think that we all agree that the club won't be sold until someone comes along and pays an agreeable sum of money to Mike. What that sum of money is, however is fluid.

In my opinion, the greatest trick that Mike has pulled to date is getting people to believe that there's nothing they can do to change the situation. In doing so he has engendered an epidemic of apathy and helplessness which serves his needs perfectly. There's nothing he wants more than people doing nothing.

As a result, the swathes of fans and supporters who hold the same ideals as yourself, LL, will do exactly that. Nothing. It's a perfectly sane behaviour when you hold that belief that there is nothing to be done. It almost makes sense. Because if there's nothing you can do then why do anything at all ?

So for me, the problem isn't the fact that you're not doing anything. It's the fact that you don't believe that doing anything will make a difference.

It reminds me of the POW situation. You've all seen the films. When the allied forces were captured and placed in POW camps, some accepted their fate and, simply because they believed that there was no chance of escape, never attempted to do anything. They are the ones that starved to death or stayed prisoners.

Others built tunnels.

It's simply a question of belief.


I agree Tab but I've no idea how that has come about - there is probably more evidence to suggest he reacts to virtually every bit of unrest than there is of him not giving a shit

I think the truth of the matter is that there just isn't the appetite for substantial protests or boycotts and I get that but for the likes of LL to look down on every attempt to try and do something about the situation as futile gets right on me tit ends
19th November 2018 12:37 PM
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LeazesLoyal Offline

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Post: #34
RE: Protest

Let’s be honest Mac you don’t like much I say, as it doesn’t fit your agenda or agree with your views.

I’m entitled to my opinion, as much as you are, the difference is you seem to take it far too personal.

I’m merely pointing out, like I have before that your opinions are not shared by a majority, if they were we’d have under 10k attendances, fires outside the ground and abuse hurled at anyone who dares to try and support their team.

I haven’t necessarily slagged the people protesting, I’m fairly certain I said earlier I applaud them for trying.

The fact remains they put a coach on at cost price to travel to Shirebrook and no doubt if it had quickly sold out, would have put more on.

They most likely sold a handful, if any tickets for the trip, so quite sensibly cancelled it, admittedly not communicating it very well, hence they have had stick off some - that I disagree with, no one should have had a pop at genuine Toon fans trying to organise something like that.

However, the facts remain it was not well backed.

Similarly the London Mags organised protest was very poorly attended, a dozen or so people.

I’d say generally the vast majority want Ashley out, these people have tried their best to organise something and for whatever reason hardly anyone has backed it.

The flag marching and demonstrations in the city, if we are being honest here, have been better attended, but only because they have been in the city centre or near the ground, when people are already close by.

It’s nothing like POW camps, although I understand the comparison, difference is this isn’t life or death is it? It’s football at the end of the day & passionate as we all are, there’s more important things in life, than getting on a coach to travel 2-3 hours to protest outside a warehouse.

Protests in whatever shape or form will be best attended at the ground or in the city and the biggest protest would be if people chose not to renew their season tickets.

We’ll see where we are at, as we always do in the summer.

I just honestly don’t think the swell of support for a mass boycott is there, whether people agree or not.
(This post was last modified: 19th November 2018 08:02 PM by LeazesLoyal.)
19th November 2018 08:01 PM
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Tight_Ass_Bramble Offline

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Post: #35
RE: Protest

(19th November 2018 08:01 PM)LeazesLoyal Wrote:  It’s nothing like POW camps, although I understand the comparison, difference is this isn’t life or death is it? It’s football at the end of the day & passionate as we all are, there’s more important things in life, than getting on a coach to travel 2-3 hours to protest outside a warehouse.

I think it’s patently obvious that I wasn’t comparing our current situation but that I was drawing comparison between the helpless actions of those who believe they are in a helpless situation.

What’s also patently obvious is that you didn’t understand that.

My fault for expecting too much.
19th November 2018 08:56 PM
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LeazesLoyal Offline

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Post: #36
RE: Protest

I think I said below on the bit you cut and pasted I understood the comparison, Jesus read things man!

What I’m saying is, people just have more important things to do than trek half way around the country to protest at a warehouse and also
there just isn’t the number of people wanting to protest as much as a few people seem to think.

Why? Probably that we’ve been here before on countless occasions and protesting has proven not to have worked.

We’ve had more than one under Ashley and he is still here.
19th November 2018 09:22 PM
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Tight_Ass_Bramble Offline

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Post: #37
RE: Protest

(19th November 2018 09:22 PM)LeazesLoyal Wrote:  I think I said below on the bit you cut and pasted I understood the comparison, Jesus read things man!

Oh I read the bit where you said that you understood it. But then you went on to qualify your understanding with some completely irrelevant information about the logistics of traveling to a protest. Which bore no relevance to my post about beliefs.

Not only does that tell me that you didn't quite absorb the point I was making, it also tells me that you don't have the self-insight to know when you don't quite understand something. But hey ho.
20th November 2018 08:36 AM
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LeazesLoyal Offline

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Post: #38
RE: Protest

No fully understood, just thought it was a poor comparison.

And you didn’t get the answer, so as you say ho hum.

Is nothing like a POW camp by the way Wink
21st November 2018 07:07 PM
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Tight_Ass_Bramble Offline

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Post: #39
RE: Protest

If you were as clever as you think you are, you'd have understood the comparison. But you're not.
21st November 2018 07:36 PM
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LeazesLoyal Offline

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Post: #40
RE: Protest

Ok tell yourself that enough times and it might be true.

I’ve never claimed I was clever either, I may be, I may not be, but I’ve never as you say claimed to be - so again not sure where you get these wild accusations from?

I’m sure people on here read posts with some weird voice in their head, imagining what posters are like - that’s very strange by the way Wink

Please be assured I get your comparison, I just think it was a poor one and doesn’t describe the situation very well at all.

There is no fate to be accepted, just a reality which you fail to grasp.

Unlike your poor example, there are no ways out that we can influence - no Trojan horses, no tunnels, no friendly games v West Germany or metaphoric equivalents.

What you seem to fail to realise is we have no influence whatsoever on him selling or not.

Whereas in the example you use, there was always the possibility of ingenious ways of attempting escape, albeit very dangerous and difficult or a film portraying a resistance backed escape.

We have no possibility of escape from this man, until someone crosses his palm with the silver he wants.

Which is the situation we have always been in through the history of the club. An owner who will sell when they get what they want for the club.

People are not stupid, they realise this, however they make the choice to support their team and continue with their match day rituals.

Life is far too short to deprive themselves of this.

Bear in mind that following NUFC for many is a lifelong obsession and part of their DNA and they have followed NUFC under a variety of regimes, the current one is no different, so nothing has changed.

On a match day there will be 11 players walking out with an NUFC strip on, hopefully trying their all to both entertain and get the points, those in the stands desire.

Whether the club is fulfilling its potential or not that will always be the case.

The owner is one in a long line that come and go when they are good and ready and unless we start to get some sort of fans ownership, which I would like, it will always be the case.

Difference between those still attending and those who are not is those still going haven’t let Ashley stop them enjoying supporting the team and enjoying their match day routine.

It’s a personal choice, but neither choice affects when and if he ever sells up.
21st November 2018 08:50 PM
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Tight_Ass_Bramble Offline

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Post: #41
RE: Protest

I refer you to my point about Mike's greatest trick was convincing you that there is nothing you can do to change this situation.
21st November 2018 09:07 PM
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LeazesLoyal Offline

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Post: #42
RE: Protest

No trick, we already know.

It was the same under every previous owner, we are unable to affect things, as we have no power, no significant financial stake.

A season ticket would not affect things, even if huge numbers chose not to renew.

The TV money is so huge, the club could survive on reduced gates.

Sad I know, but it’s true and previously the money in the game wasn’t anything like it has been since 1992, so clubs didn’t pay the players anything like they do now.

Sky have done wonders to sell the game, but to the detriment of the game overall and so clubs are now owned by billionaires who now have a vice like grip on clubs, to do with as they please.

Shockingly we appear to be one of the unlucky ones with a billionaire who has no desire for glory or the betterment of the club.

I ask you though, do you honestly think we can affect things and remove him?

I very much doubt it and the best we could do would be to convince the world we are attractive to buy and hope someone comes in and buys it.

Then we’ll cross our fingers and pray they want to strive to achieve all this club potentially can.

I am just as frustrated as anyone, but I honestly don’t believe we have a clear path to salvation.

The Magpie Group don’t have the answers and have lost a lot of credibility with the lies about the Shirebrook cancellation they posted on social media - that was a big own goal and will halt any progress they may have been making.
21st November 2018 10:30 PM
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davenufc Offline

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Post: #43
RE: Protest

You love the fact they fucked up. You actually proved the sentiment of my post as well the fact that you enjoy protests failing.

As for making ourselves an attractive club to buy, what a pile of shit. The buyers are there, it's the fact he won't sell while idiots are funding him and giving him an easy ride.
21st November 2018 11:13 PM
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Jinkyjim Offline

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Post: #44
RE: Protest





No way are Leazes and his mates giving all this up...
21st November 2018 11:40 PM
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Tight_Ass_Bramble Offline

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Post: #45
RE: Protest

(21st November 2018 10:30 PM)LeazesLoyal Wrote:  No trick, we already know.

It was the same under every previous owner, we are unable to affect things, as we have no power, no significant financial stake.

A season ticket would not affect things, even if huge numbers chose not to renew.

The TV money is so huge, the club could survive on reduced gates.

Sad I know, but it’s true and previously the money in the game wasn’t anything like it has been since 1992, so clubs didn’t pay the players anything like they do now.

Sky have done wonders to sell the game, but to the detriment of the game overall and so clubs are now owned by billionaires who now have a vice like grip on clubs, to do with as they please.

Shockingly we appear to be one of the unlucky ones with a billionaire who has no desire for glory or the betterment of the club.

I ask you though, do you honestly think we can affect things and remove him?

I very much doubt it and the best we could do would be to convince the world we are attractive to buy and hope someone comes in and buys it.

Then we’ll cross our fingers and pray they want to strive to achieve all this club potentially can.

I am just as frustrated as anyone, but I honestly don’t believe we have a clear path to salvation.

The Magpie Group don’t have the answers and have lost a lot of credibility with the lies about the Shirebrook cancellation they posted on social media - that was a big own goal and will halt any progress they may have been making.

You’re just repeating yourself. I’m already aware of why you believe that you’re right to do nothing.

What I am interested in, is why you believe that nothing that we do, as a united fanbase, will have any affect on Mike. That’s the part that interests me, the notion that there is nothing that you can do, as a season ticket holder and supporter of the club, that can put pressure on Mike to make his life so uncomfortable that he either lowers his asking price or makes a concerted effort to find a purchaser.

It must be very unpleasant, having a feeling of such powerlessness that leads you to accept this situation as a fait a compli.
22nd November 2018 07:58 AM
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McCreery Offline

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Post: #46
Protest

Stockholm Syndrome rather than The Great Escape



.
(This post was last modified: 22nd November 2018 08:35 AM by McCreery.)
22nd November 2018 08:34 AM
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Tight_Ass_Bramble Offline

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Post: #47
RE: Protest

Big Grin

I don’t think it’s Stockholm Syndrome but I am interested into why he feels so powerless.

This brings me back to the question you, Mac, asked me earlier about evidence not supporting his belief. This is confirmation bias in action: only addressing the evidence that supports his belief and disregarding the evidence to the contrary. People do this as they’re not comfortable challenging their own strongly-held beliefs. Add onto this that LL will probably have a very collusive set of friends/others who believe the same things and will reinforce his stance with every conversation. Hence a strongly held belief that there is nothing he can do to change the situation.

There is of course evidence to suggest that Mike is going nowhere despite the protesters. That evidence being that he is still here. There is however, a wealth of evidence to suggest that pressure on Ashley unnerves him into making further attempts to sell. With perspective, and addressing this without bias, leads the likes of you, me and many others into believing that, if we protest and put the spotlight/pressure on Mike, then change may come.

LL of course comes to a very different conclusion. That there is nothing he can do to change the outcome. So, as a result of him fervently believing this, he does nothing. Indeed even criticises and/or belittles attempts to do something which he deems is futile. It’s plain as day to him.

And, as a recent development, has used numbers of protesters to mitigate or justify his stance, in the misconception that popular opinion is always correct.

It’s that processing of evidence through cognitive bias that interests me. Thats the significant part of this cycle of behaviour.
22nd November 2018 09:56 AM
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McCreery Offline

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Post: #48
Protest

Big thumbs up
22nd November 2018 10:21 AM
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Jinkyjim Offline

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Post: #49
Protest

In a nutshell, what you both mean is, if LL were a prisoner of war, he would be the one sat in the corner, waiting to be rescued...
22nd November 2018 10:35 AM
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guff Offline

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Post: #50
RE: Protest

(22nd November 2018 10:35 AM)Jinkyjim Wrote:  In a nutshell, what you both mean is, if LL were a prisoner of war, he would be the one sat in the corner, waiting to be rescued...

… slagging off those building gliders and digging tunnels.
22nd November 2018 11:53 AM
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Jinkyjim Offline

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Post: #51
Protest

Hahaha...
22nd November 2018 12:14 PM
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ToonArmy1892 Offline

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Post: #52
RE: Protest

He would probably tell the guards about them.
(This post was last modified: 22nd November 2018 01:22 PM by ToonArmy1892.)
22nd November 2018 01:22 PM
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davenufc Offline

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Post: #53
RE: Protest

Unfortunately there are 50,000 more just like him
22nd November 2018 01:23 PM
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McCreery Offline

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Post: #54
Protest

That's where I separate the likes of Ven and friends and family who go Dave

There is a large percentage of fans who fully understand the situation but have made the choice to just ride it out and see what happens - where they differ from LL is that they don't belittle the efforts or sacrifices of those who have tried to do anything about it



.
(This post was last modified: 22nd November 2018 01:31 PM by McCreery.)
22nd November 2018 01:29 PM
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ToonArmy1892 Offline

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Post: #55
RE: Protest

Anyone who fully understands the situation and still goes can't really complain about it though, indirectly they are part of the problem. And yes that included me last season.
(This post was last modified: 22nd November 2018 01:37 PM by ToonArmy1892.)
22nd November 2018 01:34 PM
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davenufc Offline

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Post: #56
RE: Protest

Anyone attending is accepting and financially supporting the problem, it's that simple.
22nd November 2018 02:58 PM
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LeazesLoyal Offline

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Post: #57
RE: Protest

Yawn and repeat.

It’s funny how some of you go on.

A handful of people on a barely read message board have all concluded they are right, because one or two people disagree with their views.

Some crazy accusations up there as well.

So now I’m belittling people am I ? Could of swore I said I applaud them, have another read.

I’m merely pointing out to you that there aren’t enough people willing to back a protest and as for putting pressure on Ashley, that’s also your assumption that he is bothered, which he clearly is not.

Also, talking about plenty of buyers being out there, really?

Sorry, you are misguided, if there were we’d have been sold long ago.

We are in the North East, which we all know gets overlooked on many things, including by football club buyers.

Evidence supports this. Ashley has said he wants to sell more than once and the club has been officially up for sale for a number of years.

What have we had in terms of interest? Yep next to fuck all, a bird who claims to have wealthy backers, yet when the crunch came, she was trying to get the club on the cheap and with lots of clauses.

So, this board has decided to, as usual descend into personal attacks, brilliant.

Like I give a fuck.

As for POW analogies fucking he’ll grow up man.

In a life or death situation I’d definitely have a different take on things and no I wouldn’t be sat in the corner waiting to be rescued, how presumptuous of you.

Silly arguments and views up there from some of you, bizarre in fact.

I live in the real world, you continue your fantasy and enjoy the TV coverage on Monday, I’ll be there following the team I love, shouting the lads on.

Oh.....that must mean I’m backing Ashley......fuck off, be delighted when he finally fucks off, but I doubt me missing the match will speed that up.

Some of you have put yourselves in self exile and that just shows to me that actually when the chips are down, clearly you are the type who would walk away and desert your troops.

You’re wasting your time with personal digs, water off a ducks back and actually quite sad.
22nd November 2018 06:57 PM
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liam1708 Offline

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Post: #58
RE: Protest

You really sound like you're not bothered....31 lines of not being bothered.
22nd November 2018 07:31 PM
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LeazesLoyal Offline

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Post: #59
RE: Protest

(22nd November 2018 07:31 PM)liam1708 Wrote:  You really sound like you're not bothered....31 lines of not being bothered.

I’m impressed you can count that far.
22nd November 2018 07:54 PM
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davenufc Offline

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Post: #60
RE: Protest

Yes there have been willing buyers, much more than staveley but as usual Ashley had no intention of selling and still doesn't, enjoy Ashley he's here to stay
22nd November 2018 08:00 PM
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