Let's dispel the myth that Shepherd was a better owner than Ashley


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Let's dispel the myth that Shepherd was a better owner than Ashley
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The Steve Offline

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Let's dispel the myth that Shepherd was a better owner than Ashley

Once and for all.

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Have a read through this and tell me Shepherd wasn't an absolute mong and as bad a chairman you could ever see.
Quote:Back in 1998 the club was worth just over £100m. The decline under the stewardship of Freddie Shepherd is plain to see. In 2007 for the first time the club owed more than it had assets. This meant that if the ground, and all the players were sold off it wouldn't cover the amounts of money owed to various people. When this happens it becomes very difficult to borrow more money from the bank, as there is nothing left to borrow against. In 2006 this meant the club had to go to Northern Rock and ask for its sponsorship money early rather than the planned for spread over a few years.

The 2008 figure shows the effect worsening. If Ashley had not bought the club and pumped money in it is difficult to believe the club would have been able to survive.

Quote:Matching up with this is the net debt figure. This is all the total of all the borrowings the club has. The bigger the debt figure the worse things are. The graph again highlights how the debt took off in 2006. In 1998 the club had £24m in the bank, in 2007 the club owed £70m. (The results in 2008 suggest the debt was actually £124m in 2007).

All these debts needed to be paid off when Ashley bought the club. The graph below looks different from the one from the 2007 results (shown lower down). The difference comes from that change in the view of what Ashley did when he bought the club. What seems to have not been clear was that when he bought the club he would immediately have to pay off the mortgage on the stadium, as it wasn't listed in the previous accounts as being anything more than a long term loan.

This meant that in 2007 it looked as the the debt was £71m. When they realised that they had to pay off the mortgage they needed to add that extra amount in. It was also necessary to put money in to cover the £34m loss for that year.

The further leap in debt in 2008 comes from the financial loss for the year having to be paid for from somewhere, and this has been from Ashley pumping more money in as a loan.

Of the £149m debt roughly£100m is owed to Mike Ashley. He has said that this is a loan that isn't expected to have to be paid back before July 2009 at the earliest, unless the club is bought from him.

That Ashley had to put in so much money during the year again shows how precarious a state the club was in when he took over. The club had borrowed up to the hilt on the ground, the training academy, the future sponsorship deals, and the Sky TV money. It is unclear if anyone would have taken lent the club more money without any assets left to guarantee against. The last loan that Shepherd managed to get was at a rate of 11.7% interest. The high rate was due to the risk the lenders felt there was in lending to a company losing so much money.

Quote:Up to 2000 the club has cash in the bank and was actually receiving interest on this.

From 2001 to 2005 the club only paid interest on its long-term loan taken out to extend the ground. This was set at £4.5m a year up to 2016.

The graph shows how things started to deteriorate in 2006 and again in 2007. Close to an extra £3m in interest payments were needed in 2007 compared to a couple of years earlier.

It has been calculated that if the amounts paid out in dividends had been used instead to pay off the long-term ground loan then the ground would now be paid for. The directors of the club decided that the money was better in the pockets of the shareholders than being in invested in the future of the club.

The amount of interest paid out in 2008 dropped but not as significantly as had been hoped for. Mike Ashley had to pay off most of the loans set up by Shepherd/Hall as part of taking over the club. It had been hoped that this meant the club would have little in the way of interest payments left to pay. The figure of £6.4m was mainly due to £4.9m having to be paid off as part of the settling of loans. This will not appear again in 2009, and the interest figure should drop to about £1.5m.

Something new has appeared in the books this year. Last year it looked as though Mike Ashley had paid off all the debts of the club. This would have cost Mike Ashley to do, roughly £70m, but was great for the club. NUFC suddenly stopped paying interest on their loans, and therefore had more money for other things. As mentioned above this didn't happen instantly but will happen in the long run. The concern is that the books now show that this has been put in as a a £100m loan from Ashley, that will have to be paid off if anyone buys the club from him. Ashley has also attached a clause against his loan saying he can charge interest at 0.5% over the inter bank lending rate. He has not made that charge in 2008. If he did it today (23rd January 2009) then he could charge the club £2.69m interest for the year.
(This post was last modified: 11th July 2011 09:31 PM by The Steve.)
11th July 2011 09:27 PM
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rotti Offline

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RE: Let's dispel the myth that Shepherd was a better owner than Ashley

Quote:The directors of the club decided that the money was better in the pockets of the shareholders

And who was the majority shareholder and received the most.
11th July 2011 10:20 PM
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Silent Bob Offline

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RE: Let's dispel the myth that Shepherd was a better owner than Ashley

So the thick end of the debt was just the loan for the ground. what's so bad about that?

and it's not unusual for sponsorship money, sky money to be tied up.. it's normal practice for transfers to be payed in installments. that's what that money was being used for, as well as running costs.

every club has debts. they all pay for players in installments, so they show as debts.
11th July 2011 11:28 PM
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rotti Offline

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RE: Let's dispel the myth that Shepherd was a better owner than Ashley

Also steve what about SJH when he went to watch the FA Cup final that year, He bumped into Ashley, SJH and Ashley got talking and He offered to sell his shares to Ashley. SJH told Ashley that he would be leaving London that night and that if Ashley was interested then he had to agree to buy them before he left. SJH claimed that he was looking for a quick sale so that the club wasn’t destabilised by rumours and Ashley took the bait.

Ashley brought in Mort and he found out that the club had a loan agreement which carried a clause which forced the repayment after the club was sold. Ashley had to pay off £44 million within weeks of buying the club. Now does that sound like a bloke who only wanted the best for NUFC or does it sound like someone who wanted to make as much as he could without any thought of what the new owner would have to pay when he sold up. When people have a go at Fat Fred and rightly so dont forget to have a pop at SJH and his Son because they made a fucking fortune out of the club anarl.
(This post was last modified: 11th July 2011 11:29 PM by rotti.)
11th July 2011 11:28 PM
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Sal Offline

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RE: Let's dispel the myth that Shepherd was a better owner than Ashley

The level of debt isn't the real issue, it's paying the fucker back that is.

We were losing £20mil+ a season and you can guarantee that Shepherd wouldn't and couldn't cover that. An overdraft only goes so far and doing stupid things like bringing 5 years worth of sponsorship income forward to buy players just puts more pressure on cash-flow going forward.

If you can't fund the losses then the lenders get twitchy and stop increasing your borrowings. We were fucked under Shepherd and that's that.
12th July 2011 04:30 AM
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The Steve Offline

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RE: Let's dispel the myth that Shepherd was a better owner than Ashley

Don't know why people are so quick to back him up. If he hadn't been forced out we'd all be going to the international stadium to watch football.
12th July 2011 06:18 AM
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Pablo Offline

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RE: Let's dispel the myth that Shepherd was a better owner than Ashley

Lets not pretend that any owner or Chairman Newcastle have ever had (certainly not while I've been alive) is in it purely for the interests of our beloved Club. They want to make money for themselves. The only alternative to this is an 'Abramovic' type who has more money than sense and wants a toy to play with.

I have less distaste for SJH as he took a huge gamble when toon was on its arse and backed Keegan. It payed off and took us to another level but could just have easily imploded and cost him a bomb so to a certain extent I dont begrudge him the majority of the money he made off us.

Shepherd was a local businessman who was placed in charge towards the end of the Hall era. I firmly believe he raped the club in all sorts of ways, he certainly never put his own money in and will have made an absolute fortune off us at the end. He is laughing his cock off at us, the NOTW expose is absolute proof of that.

Ashley is a strange one. Not local, or a fan he seems to me to have bought the club on a whim which is most unbusinesslike, unaware of the real state of the clubs finances thanks mostly to Shepherd. He has at least invested his own money to stabilise the club but my take on Ashley now is that he has had enough. I think he wants to claw back as much money as possible while he is at the helm and if he can do that and walk away in front after eventually selling the club then he will be happy. He doesnt care about success the way we think of it, just about financial success.

There seems to me to be 4 types of owner and its really about what you would be happy to accept.

A) An Abramovic with no links to the club who will spend whatever it takes to win things and damn the cost. (Chelsea, Man City?)

B) An investor with no personal ties to the club who wants to make money but who hopefully understands that he must invest real cash to achieve success and therefore profit. (Liverpool, Villa?)

C) An investor with no personal ties to the club who just wants to make money whatever way it happens. (Ashley?)

D) A rich 'fan' of the club, probably not at the level financially of the other three but wants the best for the club within his means (Boro, Wigan etc)

A) would be lovely but I would happily accept D) next personally, then B). Ashley is bottom of the list of owners for me but still a slight improvement on Shepherd
(This post was last modified: 12th July 2011 01:29 PM by Pablo.)
12th July 2011 07:06 AM
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Brassneck

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RE: Let's dispel the myth that Shepherd was a better owner than Ashley

Quote:Lets not pretend that any owner or Chairman Newcastle have ever had (certainly not while I've been alive) is in it purely for the interests of our beloved Club. They want to make money for themselves. The only alternative to this is an 'Abramovic' type who has more money than sense and wants a toy to play with.

ofcourse they are all in for money,..even though they all say "theres no money to be made owning a football club"

I always judge an owner/chairman on if he improved the state of a club from when he started to when he left,..SJH is the only one i can think of who has done that at the toon
12th July 2011 07:37 AM
Vic Offline

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RE: Let's dispel the myth that Shepherd was a better owner than Ashley

I just want to watch and enjoy the games, I don't understand the finances. I don't care about who gets paid what, I just want to look forward to games, watch them and hope we win. My only caveat is that I don't want us to go bust, other than that I will follow day in and day out.

Simple me Smile
12th July 2011 08:07 AM
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tino Offline

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RE: Let's dispel the myth that Shepherd was a better owner than Ashley

|Steve

i dont know who has compared the 2 owners, but most people with a knowledge of the history of the club have seen us raped and plundered over a sustained time

you need to stop making comparisons between 2 evils. you also need to understand the club was financially secured, albeit tenuously, when Shepherd was there

Ultimately as Chairman and majority shareholder, SJH, who turned a £3m investment into £250m, was more culpable than Shepherd, as he had the final say on all deals

Including the ones where the club bought Dougs cars at inflated prices, when Doug was paid a substantial amount to sit in Spain etc etc etc.

And when people correct you about Shepherd it doesnt mean they are pro Shepherd I suggest it means they want the truth to be told
12th July 2011 08:34 AM
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The_Flaming_Lip Offline

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RE: Let's dispel the myth that Shepherd was a better owner than Ashley

(11th July 2011 11:28 PM)Silent Bob Wrote: Guests cannot see links in the messages. Please register to forum by clicking here to see links.So the thick end of the debt was just the loan for the ground. what's so bad about that?

and it's not unusual for sponsorship money, sky money to be tied up.. it's normal practice for transfers to be payed in installments. that's what that money was being used for, as well as running costs.

every club has debts. they all pay for players in installments, so they show as debts.

Shepherd hollowed this club out from the inside and left us a big club in name only. When he took over we were a top 2 side with a world class team and manager. When he left we were a shit team struggling to make 13th every year with a shit manager. Never nbd the fact that financially we were headed to oblivion.

The idea that Shepherd was a better owner than Ashley is delusional bordering on wilful ignorance.

Face facts - they are both shite. The idea that Ashley is purely responsible for NUFC being an average club is like blaming the band for the Titanic sinking. He is just one small cog of ineptitude in a very long and tragic list of owners this club has been fucked over by.

Freddy fucking Shepherd. Cunt of the highest order.
12th July 2011 09:58 AM
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jack Offline

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RE: Let's dispel the myth that Shepherd was a better owner than Ashley

so what...................

i would rather watch a squad built by freddie's hands than a one by ashley's all day long.

who really gives a flying fuck how finances are ran or spent as long as the playing side of the club is top of the tree?

ask manure or manshitty fans if they give a fuck.

i fail to see what all this regurgitation of history will achieve tbh and what is the POINT?
have we not got enough on wor plates withoot all this shite aboot freddy was a monster and ashley aint bullshit.
(This post was last modified: 12th July 2011 04:15 PM by jack.)
12th July 2011 04:14 PM
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Figs Offline

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RE: Let's dispel the myth that Shepherd was a better owner than Ashley

But honest i hate Ashley like any other man female dog cat fish but would you like us to be like sheff wed or leeds or even southampton cause thats what we were heading if it wasnt for Ashley bailing us oot.

Yes he is a cunt and taking every penny he can get but we bounced back from relegation and hopefully we wont see that ever again..

But i want him out as well and want someone else with loads of money to try to take us that step beyond into europe something i carnt see with Ashley..
12th July 2011 04:17 PM
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Sal Offline

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RE: Let's dispel the myth that Shepherd was a better owner than Ashley

Jack - We weren't at the top of the tree though, we were shyte.

Tino - How was it secured financially? Where was the money to cover the losses coming from? The overdraft was just about maxed out, the sponsorship money spent, what next??? A loan from Shepherd and SJH?? Doubt it like. The banks won't have been mad keen on lending us more because there was less and less to secure it on, we were already in a position where our liabilities exceeded our assets.

Aye there is nothing wrong with borrowing against the stadium or whatever, I mean we all do it against our homes. But what happens when your income drops and your debt keeps getting bigger???

You lose your house that's what happens.
12th July 2011 04:24 PM
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jack Offline

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RE: Let's dispel the myth that Shepherd was a better owner than Ashley

(12th July 2011 04:24 PM)Sal Wrote: Guests cannot see links in the messages. Please register to forum by clicking here to see links.Jack - We weren't at the top of the tree though, we were shyte.

Tino - How was it secured financially? Where was the money to cover the losses coming from? The overdraft was just about maxed out, the sponsorship money spent, what next??? A loan from Shepherd and SJH?? Doubt it like. The banks won't have been mad keen on lending us more because there was less and less to secure it on, we were already in a position where our liabilities exceeded our assets.

Aye there is nothing wrong with borrowing against the stadium or whatever, I mean we all do it against our homes. But what happens when your income drops and your debt keeps getting bigger???

You lose your house that's what happens.


really?
12th July 2011 04:56 PM
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Sal Offline

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RE: Let's dispel the myth that Shepherd was a better owner than Ashley

Yes!!!!

Look at our league finished from SBR onward, we were shyte and his last roll of the dice was to bring Allardyce in.

Yes Ashley came in at that point but the signings of Smith, Barton, Viduka and Geremi were still going to happen.
12th July 2011 05:03 PM
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Brassneck

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RE: Let's dispel the myth that Shepherd was a better owner than Ashley

we all know about sheperds reign,.started with £24m in the bank, 10 years later managed to turn that into £70m debt blah blah,.yes, fat despicable cunt he was/is.

This is Ashley/lambasre`s era,..none of us can see into the future..lets see what they do with their first 10 years.

4 years in,.. he has managed to get us relegated,..has appointed 4 different managers,..sold our top striker and failed to replace him,.spent fuck all on new players,..and introduced a wage cap which means we have NO fuckin chance of attracting the top players, (even if he was willing to cough up the cash to sign the cunts)

roll on the next 6 years,..as SJH once said "just watch us come through..!!"
12th July 2011 05:31 PM
rotti Offline

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RE: Let's dispel the myth that Shepherd was a better owner than Ashley

Quote:Look at our league finished from SBR onward

I thought we finished in 5th place when SBR was still here.
12th July 2011 06:39 PM
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Sal Offline

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RE: Let's dispel the myth that Shepherd was a better owner than Ashley

That was his last season Rotti, it has been a big down hill since then, a steep fall to mediocrity and ultimately relegation.
12th July 2011 06:58 PM
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rotti Offline

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RE: Let's dispel the myth that Shepherd was a better owner than Ashley

Agree we went to shit when he got the push as i said at the time Sal.
12th July 2011 07:08 PM
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Brassneck

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RE: Let's dispel the myth that Shepherd was a better owner than Ashley

what would you expect with sourmess, roeder, allershyte at the helm,...but look at the time since under ashley,,KK, kinnear, shearer, hughton, parcunt,.. i dread to think who we get next
12th July 2011 08:39 PM
Sal Offline

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RE: Let's dispel the myth that Shepherd was a better owner than Ashley

My bet is a glorious return of Kinnear.
12th July 2011 08:43 PM
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The Steve Offline

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RE: Let's dispel the myth that Shepherd was a better owner than Ashley

Shepherd made one good appointment - Bobby.

The rest....dear me. He gave them all zillions of OUR money. Not his. Ours. Where did it get us? Midtable and on the verge of financial oblivion. Put simply the debts we had were not managable. Read the website written by some financial expert instead of listening to the bollocks Shepherd came out with after he left.

Shepherd is one of the worst things to ever happen to the club. Ashley ain't much better either mind.
12th July 2011 10:42 PM
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lipsquid Offline

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RE: Let's dispel the myth that Shepherd was a better owner than Ashley

Shepherd became obsessed with building the team around Shearer I reckon. When SBR suggested selling Shearer and bringing in younger legs FFS is supposed to have flipped his lid and banned SBR from transfer dealings.

In my opinion hero worship should be just that. Ashley's mistakes were bringing in Keegan and then bringing in Shearer. Obviously the Kinnear debacle goes without saying but it did bring a bit of a comedy element to the club, albeit a disastrous one.

We know the past, we don't know the future. All we can do is be part of the present and at the moment things aren't looking too bad for which I'm thankful. The way I see it FFS lost control towards the end, chucking good money after bad trying to keep the club climbing a very slippery pole. Ashley's made mistakes and he doesn't seem too grand at communicating his intentions, I'm not sure Llambarse and Pardew know what they are, but for the time being the fears of the club going under are gone. What I'd like to see now, as in this coming season, is considerable progress on the pitch.
13th July 2011 07:34 AM
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LeazesLoyal Offline

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RE: Let's dispel the myth that Shepherd was a better owner than Ashley

Shepherd had the club on a one way ticket to oblivion.

SJH knew this, which is why he sensibly got Ashley to buy his shares - must have been a canny sales pitch from Hall, to convince Ashley to buy without doing due diligence.

Shepherd raped this club from within - bogus transactions to rent warehouses to ahem "hold stock" at inflated prices just one of the many.

SJH made a lot of money, however he was the one who PERSONALLY guaranteed the money to the banks to convince KK to come back when he walked out very early on into his reign.

SJH had the vision of what this club could be and he instinctively knew KK was the man for the job.

Yes he made multi millions in the end, but I don't begrudge him that, his vision, his toil and effort to get KK, to back him, to invest in the ground (which lets be honest was shit - the Leazes was embarrassing), SJH gave us all he promised on the pitch, genuine title contenders, European football, exciting football, etc.

Shepherd royally fucked it up and once in charge bled the club dry and his only "achievements" were to embarrass the club in the gutter press, chase trophy signings that would bankrupt us and in the main appoint fuckwits. SBR being the exception of course.

Ashley by comparison has at least put his OWN money in to keep the club afloat.

Shepherd's personal investment in NUFC was minimal, for maximum return.
(This post was last modified: 13th July 2011 12:11 PM by LeazesLoyal.)
13th July 2011 12:08 PM
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The Steve Offline

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RE: Let's dispel the myth that Shepherd was a better owner than Ashley

I think Shepherd put in a grand total of £0
13th July 2011 01:14 PM
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Brassneck

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RE: Let's dispel the myth that Shepherd was a better owner than Ashley

(13th July 2011 12:08 PM)LeazesLoyal Wrote: Guests cannot see links in the messages. Please register to forum by clicking here to see links.Shepherd had the club on a one way ticket to oblivion.

SJH knew this, which is why he sensibly got Ashley to buy his shares - must have been a canny sales pitch from Hall, to convince Ashley to buy without doing due diligence.

Shepherd raped this club from within - bogus transactions to rent warehouses to ahem "hold stock" at inflated prices just one of the many.

SJH made a lot of money, however he was the one who PERSONALLY guaranteed the money to the banks to convince KK to come back when he walked out very early on into his reign.

SJH had the vision of what this club could be and he instinctively knew KK was the man for the job.

Yes he made multi millions in the end, but I don't begrudge him that, his vision, his toil and effort to get KK, to back him, to invest in the ground (which lets be honest was shit - the Leazes was embarrassing), SJH gave us all he promised on the pitch, genuine title contenders, European football, exciting football, etc.

Shepherd royally fucked it up and once in charge bled the club dry and his only "achievements" were to embarrass the club in the gutter press, chase trophy signings that would bankrupt us and in the main appoint fuckwits. SBR being the exception of course.

Ashley by comparison has at least put his OWN money in to keep the club afloat.

Shepherd's personal investment in NUFC was minimal, for maximum return.

WELL said LL,..**applauds**
13th July 2011 05:29 PM
lundypete Offline

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Post: #28
RE: Let's dispel the myth that Shepherd was a better owner than Ashley

Yep, Leazes post sums it up. Ashley is at least using his own money, I just wish he was someone else, or at least didnt have llambias there!
13th July 2011 07:39 PM
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LeazesLoyal Offline

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RE: Let's dispel the myth that Shepherd was a better owner than Ashley

I wish he'd realise what a golden goose he is sat on and nurture it properly.

If he just understood what could be achieved, with his wealth he could make it happen & he'd get his money back as the club would be bouncing, fans would be back buying merchandise, corporate sponsors would be calmmering to get in, etc, etc and the club would be far more saleable.

NUFC is the biggest club in this country - just totally untapped potential that only SJH came close to realising.
13th July 2011 07:58 PM
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Brassneck

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RE: Let's dispel the myth that Shepherd was a better owner than Ashley

(13th July 2011 07:58 PM)LeazesLoyal Wrote: Guests cannot see links in the messages. Please register to forum by clicking here to see links.I wish he'd realise what a golden goose he is sat on and nurture it properly.

If he just understood what could be achieved, with his wealth he could make it happen & he'd get his money back as the club would be bouncing, fans would be back buying merchandise, corporate sponsors would be calmmering to get in, etc, etc and the club would be far more saleable.

NUFC is the biggest club in this country - just totally untapped potential that only SJH came close to realising.

thats more or less what i was saying in another thread,..some fans have just accepted that ashleys not gonna use his personal wealth to get us where we want to be,..fair enough,..but some are basically saying that he is right in not doing that....????!!!

couldn`t make it up No
13th July 2011 08:12 PM

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