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omenator Offline

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Just noticed...

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So who makes the money from the online sales, the club or SportsDirect Confused
5th November 2013 02:46 PM
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tino Offline

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Just noticed...

yup

another revenue stream diverted to SD

no wonder we cant compete
(This post was last modified: 5th November 2013 02:59 PM by tino.)
5th November 2013 02:58 PM
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King Sentinel I Offline

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RE: Just noticed...

What is a wonder is if anyone is actually surprised. He's bleeding every last penny from the fan base. If I were him and those who were willing to keep feeding the coffers just kept on a coming, I wouldn't be selling up either. I'd have the top people in working ways of squeezing even more out of the loyal supporters.

Puppetew said he was a big fan, what he didn't go on to say was, of money.
(This post was last modified: 5th November 2013 04:15 PM by King Sentinel I.)
5th November 2013 04:14 PM
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NE1 Offline

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RE: Just noticed...

(5th November 2013 04:14 PM)King Sentinel I Wrote: Guests cannot see links in the messages. Please register to forum by clicking here to see links.What is a wonder is if anyone is actually surprised. He's bleeding every last penny from the fan base.

Not bleeding every penny from me. In fact, he has kept my season ticket the same price for 10 years.

I think ashley should get a round of applause.
(This post was last modified: 5th November 2013 08:29 PM by NE1.)
5th November 2013 08:28 PM
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King Sentinel I Offline

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RE: Just noticed...

Wow you've told him eh. 4 quid a pint in the ground for watered down pish. Caviar prices for shitty food.

Yeah he hasn't frozen them prices has he.
5th November 2013 10:12 PM
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huntface Offline

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Just noticed...

It's £4.70 at Wembley. I'm going to Twickenham on saturday and bet I don't get much change from a fiver.

Boooo to expensive shit beer. Boo I say.
6th November 2013 08:10 AM
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NE1 Offline

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RE: Just noticed...

Buyers choice inside.

you dont have to buy a pint in the ground or have the food.
6th November 2013 08:49 AM
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King Sentinel I Offline

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RE: Just noticed...

That doesn't make it ok though does it? Wembley and Twickers have always been a rip off anyway. Local pubs in London in and around Wembley would be expensive for a pint as London is itself a rip off. Like I said its about squeezing every penny out of supporters. But again supply and demand plays a part. If it were my business I would sell watered down generic lager to the masses for vastly inflated prices as long as they kept on rolling in and handing over their hard earned. The same people who are the first to ask why he doesn't sell up and move on.
6th November 2013 08:57 AM
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The Steve Offline

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RE: Just noticed...

(6th November 2013 08:57 AM)King Sentinel I Wrote: Guests cannot see links in the messages. Please register to forum by clicking here to see links.That doesn't make it ok though does it? Wembley and Twickers have always been a rip off anyway. Local pubs in London in and around Wembley would be expensive for a pint as London is itself a rip off. Like I said its about squeezing every penny out of supporters. But again supply and demand plays a part. If it were my business I would sell watered down generic lager to the masses for vastly inflated prices as long as they kept on rolling in and handing over their hard earned. The same people who are the first to ask why he doesn't sell up and move on.

You pay over the odds at all sports/concert venues. They do it because they can. This isn't exclusive to Ashley. You'll have been paying £4+ for a pint at the arena for years.

Food and drink has been expensive at SJP for as long as I can remember.
6th November 2013 10:13 AM
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King Sentinel I Offline

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RE: Just noticed...

Keep justifying it. That's right.

It's fair enough, the difference is the Arena invest it by bringing the acts people want to see into the city. Ashley pockets it while he laughs at us and generally takes the pish.
6th November 2013 10:32 AM
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The Steve Offline

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Just noticed...

I'm not justifying it. If people want to go to the ground early and have a pint or have one at half time that's their prerogative.

I just don't see how this can be attributed to Ashley. I will say, however, that drinks are cheaper than they are at Wolves.
6th November 2013 11:16 AM
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Texasmag Offline

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RE: Just noticed...

As Direct is in the name of the website, I would have thought it was a given that Sports Direct were the main benefactor.
6th November 2013 11:32 AM
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King Sentinel I Offline

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RE: Just noticed...

(6th November 2013 11:16 AM)The Steve Wrote: Guests cannot see links in the messages. Please register to forum by clicking here to see links.I'm not justifying it. If people want to go to the ground early and have a pint or have one at half time that's their prerogative.

I just don't see how this can be attributed to Ashley. I will say, however, that drinks are cheaper than they are at Wolves.

None of us here support wolves though do they? So that's irrelevant. What I am saying is those who feel the need to go and fill mikes pockets buying his merch and food etc, are the first to gripe about his tenure, well if you continue to add to his millions you can hardly bitch and moan when he doesn't want to give up the goose that lays golden eggs.

It's common sense, simple common sense.
6th November 2013 11:52 AM
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McCreery Offline

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Just noticed...

You've picked the wrong bloke to have that particular argument with KS
6th November 2013 11:54 AM
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King Sentinel I Offline

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RE: Just noticed...

True dat
6th November 2013 12:12 PM
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The Steve Offline

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RE: Just noticed...

(6th November 2013 11:52 AM)King Sentinel I Wrote: Guests cannot see links in the messages. Please register to forum by clicking here to see links.
(6th November 2013 11:16 AM)The Steve Wrote: Guests cannot see links in the messages. Please register to forum by clicking here to see links.I'm not justifying it. If people want to go to the ground early and have a pint or have one at half time that's their prerogative.

I just don't see how this can be attributed to Ashley. I will say, however, that drinks are cheaper than they are at Wolves.

None of us here support wolves though do they? So that's irrelevant. What I am saying is those who feel the need to go and fill mikes pockets buying his merch and food etc, are the first to gripe about his tenure, well if you continue to add to his millions you can hardly bitch and moan when he doesn't want to give up the goose that lays golden eggs.

It's common sense, simple common sense.

Well I agree entirely with this. That was my point in that other thread before some people shot me down for saying so.
6th November 2013 01:18 PM
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Chris_NUFC Offline

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RE: Just noticed...

Newcastle United Financial Accounts – Where Has The Money Gone Under Mike Ashley?
55 mins ago by Mark Jensen

Football is a game of opinions, it is what keeps us all going in between those ninety minutes’ that are played on the green stuff.
Sadly, much of the chat between fans these days isn’t just about what happens on the field of play, instead much of our time (including on this website) is spent discussing how the club is run off the pitch under Mike Ashley.

The finances coming into the sharpest focus when for example Newcastle United don’t buy a single player in the summer window just gone by.

Alan Pardew has regularly told us that Newcastle can’t compete when it comes to the financial side of things, justifying the lack of transfer activity and Newcastle United’s place in the scheme of things.

To back this message up, we have been treated to some quite bizarre columns appearing under Joe Kinnear’s name in recent matchday programmes, for example lecturing fans about the ins and outs of FFP (Financial Fair Play) and United’s commercial income compared to other clubs. All very bizarre, not just the ridiculous nature of what they are saying, in my opinion, but that they also expect us to actually believe that Joe Kinnear has written it.

Repeatedly it is hammered home, Newcastle fans who think their club should be able to compete these days with the ‘big boys’, or indeed the not so big boys, are clearly deluded.

So is that the end of it? Should we just accept that Newcastle will always now be also-rans, with no chance of ever competing with what people generally see now as the ‘top six’, or even those below that?

Alan Pardew has often said that off the pitch there is no way Newcastle can compete with Manchester United financially but to many of us that isn’t the point. What I, and many others, believe is that a well run Newcastle United can year after year build its way into a club that can compete with those in that top six. Newcastle will never have a turnover that matches Manchester United but what NUFC are capable of, is making massive strides in closing the gap on those other clubs in that top six and eventually getting in amongst them.

How can this be done? Well the answers to many puzzles are often to be found by looking backwards to help take us forwards.
Newcastle United’s financial position is currently;

1. Mike Ashley has made clear Newcastle United has to live within its means, he isn’t going to put his own money in to subsidise the running of his club (asset).

2. The second part of the equation is that the income Newcastle bring in from commercial activities and match day revenue streams, is far lower than that of those top six and much of a muchness now with clubs such as Everton, Villa and others.

So that’s it then, isn’t it? If you believe so then it is a depressing reality because then the only possible advantage Newcastle could have over any of our ‘competitors’ is Graham Carr unearthing player after player who will massively increase in value, with Newcastle selling high and reinvesting in other hidden gems.

Obviously it is a huge benefit to have somebody of Graham Carr’s experience and expertise but it isn’t a whole plan or strategy in itself. For starters every club is looking to get quality players at the best price, plus for every success you will have players who don’t increase in value.

So the bottom line is that for Newcastle United to realistically compete year after year and have a chance of winning trophies you need money, the conundrum is where can it come from?

The financial information below, comes from the annual Deloitte reports, or the ‘Rich List’ as it is often referred to. Deloitte put out a report examining the twenty football clubs with the highest turnovers in the world, they look at each club and see where they get their money from.

The income is divided into Matchday, which includes all money generated such as corporates and boxes, not just the ‘ordinary’ fan buying tickets.

Then you have Broadcasting which is almost exclusively from the various TV deals both in the UK and increasingly, income generated from overseas rights.

Finally, Commercial income, which is pretty much everything not included in the other two categories; shirt sponsor, merchandise, kit deal, perimeter advertising inside St.James’ Park and increasingly (for most clubs) all kinds of tie-ins with companies both in the UK and again increasingly around the world, with the reach of the English Premier League allowing its clubs to bring in massive amounts of extra cash due to the exposure. This was given a massive shot in the arm with the latest North American deal seeing matches shown live on terrestial TV over the pond, making the audience infinitely greater.

So what about Newcastle United?

Well look at these figures we have taken from various Deloitte reports, as a decent illustration we have compared Newcastle United’s figures with Tottenham’s, for the three seasons before Mike Ashley took over and then the latest available Deloitte report for the 2011/12 season when Newcastle finished fifth in the Premier League.
Have a good look.

The world placing refers to highest turnovers in the world, so basically in 2004/05, Newcastle’s was the 12th biggest and Spurs’ was 13th.
Then we have the overall turnover figure, before the breakdown of that figure into the three different categories that make up the total..

World Placing Turnover Matchday Revenue Broadcasting Revenue Commercial Revenue
£Millions £Millions £Millions £Millions
2004/05
Spurs 13th 70.6 21.1 25.5 24.00
NUFC 12th 87.1 35.3 27.9 23.9
2005/06
Spurs 15th 74.1 17.6 28.7 27.8
NUFC 13th 85.9 31.5 26.5 27.9
2006/07
Spurs 11th 103.1 30.9 33.7 38.5
NUFC 14th 87.1 33.6 25.9 27.6
2011/12
Spurs 13th 144.2 41.1 61.6 41.5
NUFC 20th 93.3 23.9 55.6 13.8

Naturally, there are all kinds of talking points but there are a number I’d particularly like to draw your attention to.

1. Spurs have more than doubled their income in seven years, Newcastle’s has pretty much stayed the same, rising by around 7%.

2. In those three seasons before Mike Ashley arrived, Newcastle were more than competing with Spurs and in fact Matchday income saw United well in front, while it was only in that 2006/07 season where Spurs came alive on the Commercial front and leapt ahead of Newcastle.

3. Newcastle’s income was very steady and it isn’t using a one-off season to back up any argument. These were solid income streams and these aren’t from Champions League seasons either, sadly they (Champions League seasons)were history by this point.

4. The TV money has gone up by tens of millions.
Leaving comparisons with Spurs aside, because really we are only bothered about Newcastle, the NUFC figures are astonishing.
We are repeatedly told that Newcastle are now a financially well run club under Mike Ashley. Not spending more than you get in is only part of the equation, the amount of money you get in is ‘quite’ important as well!

The figures are mind blowing, Mike Ashley has managed to halve Newcastle United’s Commercial income from £27.9m in 2005/06 to £13.8m in 2011/12, this is without even taking into account higher prices/inflation and so on which should have automatically INCREASED the total, never mind it going backwards. Standing still would have been seen as disastrous, never mind what the actual reality we are faced with..

When it comes to Matchday money, income has come down from £35.3m (2004/05) to £23.9m (2011/12).
What has happened to the money? With Mike Ashley owning Newcastle United in its entirety, he presents his accounts as he sees fit, with only the basics available for us to see via the published club accounts and then set out by such things as the Deloitte reports.

What the figures tell me is that Newcastle United has been turned into a massive financial failure, it is an absolute disgrace. Money that should be there, and we are talking tens of millions every season, is just no longer there in the totals. Where it has gone is obviously a very interesting question.

The combined income from Matchday and Commercial was £57.2m in 2004/05 and Ashley has turned that into £37.7m in 2011/12.
Comparing Newcastle to Spurs is a very small part of the story, if you looked at every single club in the Premier League and probably all of those below the top division, I bet you wouldn’t find one that has less (non-TV) income in 2011/12 than they had seven years previous.
Mike Ashley is turning us (has turned us?) into almost another Blackburn or Bolton. Clubs where the TV income is everything.

What Ashley has done to Newcastle is strip away belief and self-respect amongst many fans that our club is something special.
Read the following extracts from the Deloitte reports in the three seasons before Ashley arrived at St.James’ Park.

2004/05
“Newcastle is the highest placed club not to benefit from Champions League revenue. This is a remarkable testament to the strength of the brand, and the club’s fanatical support. Average Premiership attendances stood at 51,800.”

2005/06
“Newcastle’s Money League placing is largely due to the club’s strong home support, and average Premier League attendances have been above 50,000 for all six seasons since St James’ Park expanded.”

2006/07
“Newcastle have featured in all eleven Money Leagues, and the club is once again in the list despite not benefiting from UEFA Champions League football, a tribute to the strength of the club’s brand and its loyal following.

“The club will hope the change in ownership and management will provide the catalyst for improvement both on and off the pitch.”
Read those quotes and weep.

Mike Ashley took over a club that was a brilliant ‘brand’ and was successful (in making money) BECAUSE of the massive support, Newcastle United just needed a little care & attention and management expertise to turn that into success on the pitch. Freddie Fletcher’s commercial expertise had helped make Newcastle a money making machine and it had only been brought to its knees thanks to all the money the Halls and Shepherds took out of the club and the disastrous decisions made in appointing people like Dalglish and Souness, combined with a disastrous transfer policy much of the time.

Freddie Fletcher turned Newcastle United’s fanatical support into pounds, via the Matchday and Commercial income.
There has never been a better time to sell the appeal of Premier League clubs both in the UK and around the World.

Whatever his motivation, Mike Ashley has screwed Newcastle United into the ground and into a club that cannot compete, thanks solely to the way he has the club organised. The rest of Ashley’s empire is booming but Newcastle United is now starved of money as well as trophies.

For Newcastle United to compete and potentially win trophies, the club doesn’t need Mike Ashley to ‘put’ money in, all that it needs is to be run professionally and with ambition.

We know our club is something special and one day it may have the chance to prove that once again to the outside world, sadly it won’t happen without massive changes and clearly the biggest of those is Mike Ashley.
6th November 2013 02:42 PM
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tino Offline

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RE: Just noticed...

And he's a cunt too
6th November 2013 05:33 PM
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King Sentinel I Offline

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RE: Just noticed...

Pretty damning evidence that, we can't compete because the books are being cooked you fat greedy bastard.
7th November 2013 11:11 AM
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LeazesLoyal Offline

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RE: Just noticed...

The books may well be getting cooked, or could it be?

1. Match ticket prices have fallen & season tickets frozen - be doubtful that Spurs have done that when their ground is oversubscribed and too small at the moment

2. How many commercial sponsors and local box holders has Ashley put off spending their money on us - i.e. who wants their brand associated with the fuck up he has made of NUFC from a PR point of view, it wouldn't be great publicity for anyone to be too closely associated whilst the tat merchant owns us

If he is sneaking money from the club, it would be pretty hard to cover up millions of pounds without someone noticing.

Either way, Jensen makes a good case and good points, to back up what I and most of us believe that NUFC should be competing year on year for honours, but we've known that for decades, well before the Hall's & Shepherds
7th November 2013 01:25 PM
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Chris_NUFC Offline

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RE: Just noticed...

I was just having a look around the net for old stories and wondered what peoples views are on this.

INSIDER Keith Harris today gives his verdict on the fortunes of Mike Ashley’s men.

The 61-year-old investment banker, who counts Chelsea owner Roman Abramovich and former Thailand PM Thaksin Shinawatra as his associates, spent more than six months searching the world for potential buyers.

But he was unable to offload the club despite enormous interest.

Now Mr Harris said the St James’ Park club would still be difficult to sell because the owners have already "maximised revenue streams".

Mr Harris said: "Part of the due diligence is that it has wonderful fan support, but it doesn’t have much of an international brand presence.

"The problem is that if you own the club, how do you improve it? Off the pitch they have already done a good job of optimising what they earn and you can’t get more people in the stadium."

Mr Harris is certain that Ashley had put a "sensible" valuation on the club in 2008.

"There were guys that he wanted to sell it to. He wanted the information and he made the decisions to go ahead or change the plans. I think the figure was an sensible expectation for the club. These types of businesses are still regarded as trophy assets.

"Academically, it should be worth more, but whether or not there’s a population willing to take it on is something else.

"It was difficult to sell for a host of reasons. At that time, we didn’t know what was going to happen. But the real negative was how you could get more out of the club."

Is he right, had the club reached its limit regarding revenue streams or potential improvement.

I can except it if nobody is interested in purchasing the club, that's just the way it is, but i do not except that, with the right ambition, the club could not be improved and make a profit.
9th November 2013 10:41 AM
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The Steve Offline

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RE: Just noticed...

I think he's talking nonsense. Take Man City as exhibit A.
9th November 2013 10:53 AM
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lipsquid Offline

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RE: Just noticed...

(7th November 2013 01:25 PM)LeazesLoyal Wrote: Guests cannot see links in the messages. Please register to forum by clicking here to see links.If he is sneaking money from the club, it would be pretty hard to cover up millions of pounds without someone noticing.

Well the club has £0 cash at the bank. I reckon all the money is filtered out into parent companies and various 'charges' are applied.

I was working for a company that was taken over by a huge American company. Prior to takeover we were breaking even or turning a small profit, had cash flow problems and so the shareholders voted to sell. Once integrated the losses became substantial because we had to pay the parent company £15k per month just for the IT administration fee, then there were fees for processing the payroll and various consultancy fees were charged just for talking to someone in another business unit.

It would be quite easy to take money out of the 'company' to pay for running costs.

The ultimate parent company is MASH Holdings Limited. Sports Direct plc is a subsidiary as is St James Holdings, the parent company of the various Newcastle Utd companies. I reckon the cash flows up the chain and gets hoyed out in dividends to its single shareholder - a certain Mr Michael James Wallace Ashley.
9th November 2013 11:09 AM
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NE1 Offline

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RE: Just noticed...

His club. His money.
9th November 2013 02:45 PM
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carters Offline

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Just noticed...

Our club..he's just a tenant..!!
9th November 2013 03:22 PM
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King Sentinel I Offline

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RE: Just noticed...

(9th November 2013 02:45 PM)NE1 Wrote: Guests cannot see links in the messages. Please register to forum by clicking here to see links.His club. His money.

Give your fucking head a shake man have you heard yourself?

He may have used his money to buy the club, he may have even used his own money to pay off debt that was costing him interest but he's not using his personal money to run it or buy players, he's using the hard earned money that people pay for ST's, over inflated food and drink, and cheaply made tat in the club shop, he even has the cheek to advertise Rangers gear on our website. All the while advertising his own shitty brand for free, and generally taking the piss with his lies, half truths and idiotic decisions.

You know what Jase people like you deserve owners like Mike Ashley.
9th November 2013 05:01 PM
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NE1 Offline

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RE: Just noticed...

People like me.

Brining that old chestnut out again eh?
9th November 2013 05:15 PM
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lipsquid Offline

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Just noticed...

Brined chestnuts - now there's an idea.
9th November 2013 05:28 PM
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King Sentinel I Offline

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RE: Just noticed...

(9th November 2013 05:15 PM)NE1 Wrote: Guests cannot see links in the messages. Please register to forum by clicking here to see links.People like me.

Brining that old chestnut out again eh?

You can't attempt to take the moral high ground, when Ashley and his cohorts are lower than a snakes belly and you actively find excuses for him. So fuck if it's his name above the door it's effectively money you pump into the clubs or rather his pockets, therefore you have a voice. If you genuinely believe Mike has the clubs best interests at heart and isn't only interested in fleecing supporters of every last drop, then I whole heartedly apologise for the above comment.



And I can only hope the 12 steps program helps you.
9th November 2013 05:54 PM
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NE1 Offline

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RE: Just noticed...

Not taking the morale high ground at all. You keep on chipping away at people who don't follow your train of thought about ashley. Then you resort to personnel insults as a final parting shot.

Been going to the toon for 40 years and so far ashley is the only one who has looked after my pocket.
9th November 2013 06:43 PM
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